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Permalink Reply by Jeannine Kaiser on August 17, 2009 at 8:37pm

Are you for real? Dating is like a battle plan? I don't know who you are, but you just don't get it. You are doing all the same things that the male dating guru's have been doing and failing miserably at for the last three decades.You don't get women at all. If you had any inclination about the why behind your little plot, then I might be buying into it. But you don't. Women are not little pawns in a game of cat and mouse. It isn't about trickery. We have been baited into having sex with men by trickery for decades. We don't want that. Why do you think the dating game isn't working? Things have changed. You can't approach this dating game with 1980 horndog guidelines. Do the math. That was 30 years ago.

People that really want to learn the scoop need to find out how we ... If you really want to learn how to establish an amazine relationship with a great woman, then look else where. I you just want to be a horndog, then follow the advice offered. Problem is, women didn't stop reading. They are on to you.

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Permalink Reply by Fire_Dragon4u on August 17, 2009 at 9:30pm

You are projecting a lot of things that are not there. Exactly where did he tell men how to bait women into having sex by trickery? It is pretty unfair to project like that then advertise your website.

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Permalink Reply by Phil on August 17, 2009 at 10:06pm

Thanks Jeannine for your reply. You make some good points. But do you think that there is any value to this idea of letting women discover things? To be mysterious?

By the way I won't ban you for commenting.

That was meant as a Mark Twain post. Mark Twain loved to exaggerate and stimulate his readers. I've been reading a lot of Mark Twain lately because I have his complete works on my Kindle.
Here's an interesting article about Mark Twain's use of this writin...

I agree with Fire Dragon4u that the tip presented did not suggest that we bait women into having sex by trickery. As far as linking to your website. That's fine. That is what ProGuildSocial is for! We don't have a policy against linking as long as it is not excessive.

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Permalink Reply by David Lehrer on August 18, 2009 at 11:11am

First, Jeannine Kaiser is obviously trying to sell her services as a dating coach so anything she says is therefore suspect. Soliciting clients under the guise of offering legitimate criticism is trickery in the extreme, the very thing she seems to object to.
I tend to think of the courtship ritual as a game, the unspoken rules of which were established long, long ago. I am looking for a relationship, not quick sex, so my actions may be different then others with other motives. And I don't reveal everything at once either. It would be overwhelming. And I don't expect a woman to do the same. The kind of things that I want to know about involve content of character. They don't come out at once but slowly and over time.
I tend to reveal a little about myself and wait for a reaction. If she seems receptive and understanding, and better yet, reveals a little about herself, all the better. I am not an open book and don't try to be. People are complex and it takes time to get to know someone. This is not a battle plan. It is just the way I feel comfortable.

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Permalink Reply by Jeff Nevins on August 17, 2009 at 8:53pm

Thanks for the info- wish I'd learned this before dating (did eHarmony a while back)!

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Permalink Reply by Phil on August 17, 2009 at 10:16pm

Try these tips, but be sure that they fit the situation and your own style.

I personally have had good results with the opposite approach -- revealing a lot about myself as time goes on with a "now is that true game." . I think on a first date, though, it works to focus on the other person and to not launch into self-disclosure. Let her ask and discover. It's true, I think, that women like to be detectives.

Anyone else agree? Disagree?

Could women also use this same approach and focus on the man and let him discover things by asking questions?

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Permalink Reply by Phil on August 17, 2009 at 10:37pm

By the way, cementing a relationship doesn't mean having sex. I once fell in love with a women and she with me. Our relationship was "cemented." And we didn't have sex until about five weeks after that. We made a date for the future to "consumate our relationship." I think that's a really wonderful approach to sexual intimacy.

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Permalink Reply by Rebecca on August 18, 2009 at 6:07pm

This is a very interesting discussion, and I hope that I am not banned for responding as well. (Ha) However, when you write, 'This is for men only', you must know (if you know anything about women) that we (women) are definitely going to read it, of course. (Ha) So, in response to your dating tip for men, I would agree to some degree that a woman does not necessarily want to hear your whole life story on the first date. Especially long dissortations about your past relationships, ugly divorce details, or child custody battles. Women definitely want, and appreciate, open communication. Whatever we want to know, we will ask. Likewise, it should be the same for men. A wise dating tip would be, however, to keep the communication positive, light, and fun! It's a first date...flirt a little! See how you communicate together, whether the conversation flows smoothly and how the 'chemistry' (Phil) feels. Chemistry is important in moving on to a second date, and no matter what you talk about, it's either there or it's not. Have fun and be authentic. That's the best advice. (Ha)

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Permalink Reply by David Lehrer on August 19, 2009 at 11:54am

Rebecca,
Life stories take a lifetime to accumulate and can't (and shouldn't) be expounded upon on a first or second date, for that matter. This is not deception. There are human limits to every conversation. And I especially agree that discussions of past relationships, divorce details, and custody battles are the death knell of any potential dating situation.
And I absolutely agree with the frustration Bob has about chemestry. I can't define it but I know when it is there and when it is not. And from substantial experience computer dating I have found that the only way one finds out if "chemestry" (however you define it) exists is in person. And then I will know within seconds. I can't tell you how many times I would ask someone I met over the net to coffee and knew before the coffee was finished that I needed to make a quick exit.

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Permalink Reply by Phil on August 19, 2009 at 8:36pm

OK Rebecca, you were warned not to post and NOW YOU HAVE DONE IT!

Good job. Excellent post. I like your comments about not going into detail about past relationships, ugly divorce details, or child custody battles. We can always save those details for later. (ha)

The advice about keeping things postive and light is excellent. And I see you like a little flirting. One of our gurus recommended flirting like there is no tomorrow. I think that could be a bit annoying don't you think?

Rebecca, since your post was so good, I am giving you a reprieve. You will not be banned. Keep up the good work.

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Permalink Reply by Phil on August 18, 2009 at 6:08pm

Susan (who is not yet a member of ProGuildSocial, but will be soon) gave me permission to post this reply:

I think you were off-base on your advice to men for the most part. I think honesty is the best policy. I do agree that no one (male or female) should share too much information on a first date.. That can be too much information. Initially, people just want to see if there is enough in common to make a decision on whether they want to pursue getting to know the other person.Keeping a little mystery is important for both men and women..........Giving too much information can be construed as being "desperate," and almost sound like a sales pitch. :)

Anyway, that is my two cents worth.

Susan

- - - - -
I agree Susan, honesty is the best policy. I also agree that "Keeping a little mystery is important for both men and women." -- Phil. (Remember the post was a summary of another Dating Guru ideas. They weren't mine. I posted these ideas to stimulate discussion.)

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Permalink Reply by Richard on August 23, 2009 at 11:05am

Let an expert tell all. First of all ,the fine ladys i have dated want the same things a strong man can give. Thats right! A long lasting love makeing experance. Gee y do the ladys like to feel my strong arms at your partys? Its the push up factor at this age, some have it ,some dont! When a lady ends up with a wimp its a let down. Thats y i am only here to help. R

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